- Rape
- Incest
- Mental retardation
- Puts mothers life in jeopardy
- Mother is a drug addict (laws should be in place to require the mother to get 'fixed')
- Severe deformities
Pro-choicers seem to think that women should have control over their bodies (which I agree with), however that is irrelevant here. For example, should a parent have the right to kill their child if they live in the same house? -- the only difference between the example and abortion is the location and age. When a women is pregnant the fetus is a separate organism, with a different set of DNA. As far as the idea of each fertilized egg as having a soul, that is impossible to know, and unlikely (e.g., can divide and make twins, can divide and reabsorb). But this doesn't remove the fact that a fertilized egg would grow into a human being, and killing it is essentially destroying that possibility, which is a form of murder (sounds a bit dramatic, but 'murder' is the only word that comes to mind). Pro-lifers are really 'pro-irresponsible behavior', if abortion in cases of 'irresponsible behavior' was banned, it may make women think twice about whether or not they should take preventative measures, knowing that they don't have abortion to fall back on. In my opinion abortions in these cases should not be legal, and perhaps make preventative measures even more available. There needs to be more respect for human life. The mentality behind those whom view abortion as acceptable in cases of 'irresponsible behavior' may cause problems down the road for society -- this mentality may pave the way for a dark future. There are consequences for everything, running away from your problems by destroying human life is immoral and cowardly.
Fixing a human against their will? Civil rights go out the window and ushering in a human neutering practice? Rape can be claimed by anyone who thinks they have not had a fair chance to think out the pros and cons of sexual behavior. Retrospective claims of rape has gotten a lot of good people jail time. “Irresponsible behavior” That sounds like a very conservative, prude, Christian thing to say. For an atheist, you make a very poor case.
ReplyDeleteWhen the vast majority of abortions are given out because a girl was to lazy to take a pill, or have their partner put on a rubber, I feel that is "irresponsible behavior". I don't feel that anyone has the right to destroy human life (regardless of how old it is). When you create life, you should not have the right to kill that life because it is inconvenient for you.
ReplyDelete"For an atheist, you make a very poor case."
Just because my case supports a view that is not in-line with yours, does not make it poor, in-fact it shows your close-mindedness. The abortion issue is not an 'atheist position', it is a moral one.
It is people like you that create this in-group/out-group bullshit, conservative vs liberal. You lump all people into one of two groups because it is easier for you to intellectualize. If you think all Democrat political platforms are good, then you show how much of a sheep you really are.
Animal rights
ReplyDeleteIntelligence is the key to life’s value? Humans have been around for 200,000 years or so and we are already on the verge of extinction. Dinosaurs and other creatures have been around for millions. Intelligence means nothing to natural selection. “People like you root for the downfall of humanity,” No, I don’t. Humanity may fall no matter who I root for.
“Putting human convenience over the "rights" of other animals is essential, unless you want us to return to a simpler time and live in clay huts and eat plants which may or may not have a 'soul'.”
The romantic notion of a “simpler time” is a false choice. The times before industrialization had just as many hardships and tribulations as any age, maybe more.
Breathing is not a uniquely human trait. Intellect is the only thing that separates humans from animals. Our compulsion to breed, fight, and preserve our species are common throughout nature. To compare a lion to a human contradicts your point of human superiority.
“When eating a cheese burger I don't want to hear some bitch telling me how wrong it is.”
Funny how a vegetarian has a feminine disposition. Chauvinism is alive and well. Not all vegetarians are women, but you already know this. To stereotype an entire lifestyle by gender is a shameless ploy to exercise.
“Humans have been eating meat as a whole for the entire history of our species, it is a biological thing, its not an opinion or a world view, it is food.”
Humans have practiced many things in the past (i.e. slavery, polygamy, genocide) that we would now claim to be morally wrong. To say that something is correct only because we have done it for millennia is to deny our ability to grow and learn from our mistakes. Contrary to popular belief, we are not made in the image of the divine, and we are not a perfect race. To claim that eating meat is a biological necessity to garner protein shows how little knowledge you have on the subject.
Abortion
ReplyDelete“When the vast majority of abortions are given out because a girl was to lazy to take a pill, or have their partner put on a rubber, I feel that is "irresponsible behavior".
I agree-irresponsible behavior from sex without any kind of protection is a very unwise choice. But no contraceptive is 100% effective. Unwanted sadly pregnancies do happen. To lump all those unfortunate people in with irresponsible people is not doing them justice.
“Just because my case supports a view that is not in-line with yours, does not make it poor, in-fact it shows your close-mindedness. The abortion issue is not an 'atheist position', it is a moral one.”
No. Your agreement with my view holds does not make it de facto poor. Your points make it poor. My view is, of course, not infallible. Nothing about my augment is close-minded. That is a very Christian thing to say: “believe what I am claiming or you are being close-minded.” I don’t buy it. I’ve heard it many times before.
Abortion is an ethical question, you are correct. But, as much as it must pain you to admit it, your moral groundwork is based on a Christian system. To place humans above the other creatures on this earth is a distinctly religious notion. I need a better articulated reason for the superiority of human life besides we are created in the divine image. Maybe you’re not the staunch atheist you claim to be. And that’s ok, just don’t go around spewing nonsense and making the rest of us look bad. Take pride in whom and what you are and don’t pose just for the sake of being a rebel.
“It is people like you that create this in-group/out-group bullshit, conservative vs liberal. You lump all people into one of two groups because it is easier for you to intellectualize. If you think all Democrat political platforms are good, then you show how much of a sheep you really are.”
I am encouraging the dogma and division of the two parties? See “Republicans: Party of Hypocrites (Part 1)”. By the way, looking forward to future parts. No bullshit here—just an exchange of ideas. If you can’t handle the anonymity of the internet, I suggest getting off the computer and joining a church. Please don’t refer to me as a sheep—it stinks of Christian undertones.
This Guttmacher Institute report notes that 13% of women reported "possible problems affecting the health of the fetus" as contributing reason for abortion; 12% cited "physical problems with my health", 1% cited rape, and less than half of one percent cited incest.
ReplyDeleteNote that these are not confirmed fetal abnormalities, nor is there any investigation into the severity of the suspected abnormality. That 13% could be anything from a diagnosis of anencephaly to preferring to get pregnant after drinking plenty of orange juice to reduce the risk of birth defects. The 12% of women reporting concerns about their health can be anything from a history of life-threatening complications late in previous pregnancies to just feeling like "I'm too old for this."
Now that I have looked at the AGI paper, Jeremy, I've decided to blog about it. Thanks!
"Intelligence is the key to life’s value? Humans have been around for 200,000 years or so and we are already on the verge of extinction."
ReplyDeleteI almost stopped after reading this, we are not even close to extinction, not even a little bit. Our species is thriving now.
You pointed out my post on Republicans, and I stand by my point, in-fact I think the two party system is stupid in general, lumping all people into one of two groups is over simplifying people.
It's hard to tell with text how angry a person is, I can also see why you may think I am angry at you -- I am not, I love the discussion, I can also see why you disagree with me on this, and the vegetarian post. However it's not like I made a post talking about how much I love to kick puppies. Nor was my post about condoning animal abuse, which I am against (I have more pets then I can handle, and I also love them very much). The organization PETA is known for being radical, and over-the-top, my dislike of them is shared by many people.
"Abortion is an ethical question, you are correct. But, as much as it must pain you to admit it, your moral groundwork is based on a Christian system. To place humans above the other creatures on this earth is a distinctly religious notion."
I'm sorry, but it is not, its based in our genes, the preservation and continuation of them is something which they strive for, not for those genes which they find themselves in competition with (aka: other species).
It's perfectly normal to view your life as being more important then that of a fly, seeing as you don't agree with this, there is not much I can say.
"“When eating a cheese burger I don't want to hear some bitch telling me how wrong it is.”
Funny how a vegetarian has a feminine disposition. Chauvinism is alive and well. Not all vegetarians are women, but you already know this. To stereotype an entire lifestyle by gender is a shameless ploy to exercise. "
LOL, I set this trap for you, and you unknowingly took the bait. When someone is a bitch, then are a person that likes to complain (e.g, 'stop being such a bitch')-- it is not exclusive to females in the context which it was being used in. So you seem to be the one stereotyping.
"Maybe you’re not the staunch atheist you claim to be. And that’s ok, just don’t go around spewing nonsense and making the rest of us look bad."
So me being pro-life (in the case of 'irresponsible behavior') means that I am not as atheist as you thought I was? And what do you mean by "staunch"? Just so you know, at the university I am attending this view is in line with the majority of atheists I have spoken with -- are they not real atheists as well? Being pro-abortion is not something to be bragging about, it is not something to be proud of -- abortion is a sad thing, regardless of how you feel about it.
"If you can’t handle the anonymity of the internet, I suggest getting off the computer and joining a church. Please don’t refer to me as a sheep—it stinks of Christian undertones."
Haha, if you really believe that this is bothering me, you are sadly mistaken, it is debate which motivates me to blog, normally criticism comes from the religious, occasionally from the nonbelievers -- either way, this is my blog, and I am free to express my views. Regardless if you personally agree with me.
When I become the all-powerful leader of earth, I will give you the right to have as many abortions as you wish, it will be my treat.
13 You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body
ReplyDeleteand knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex!
Your workmanship is marvelous—how well I know it.
15 You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion,
as I was woven together in the dark of the womb.
16 You saw me before I was born.
Every day of my life was recorded in your book.
Every moment was laid out
before a single day had passed.
17 How precious are your thoughts about me,[a] O God.
They cannot be numbered!
18 I can’t even count them;
they outnumber the grains of sand!
And when I wake up,
you are still with me!