Chatting with a former Catholic.

 Here I'm on a chat room (using the name: bea) with an atheist who was a former catholic (thought he was a catholic until the end), the discussion is interesting nonetheless.

<UsandThem> hi bea
 
<UsandThem> i used to be catholic so i might be able to help
 
<bea> i realy want to know the difference between catholic...and protestant.
 
<UsandThem> umm one of the big things is the idea of transsubstantiation
 
<UsandThem> that the bread and wine become jesus' body and blood
 
<bea> interesting
 
<UsandThem> and another thing is the idea of faith and works....catholics think you need both faith and works to get into heaven and protestants believe you only need faith
 
<bea> what are works?
 
<UsandThem> other than that im not sure...i mean they had a problem with indulgences....but that doesnt happen anymore
 
<UsandThem> like good deeds
 
<UsandThem> like helping the sick and all that
 
<bea> what is your view on islam?
 
<bea> i used to be a muslim..but i left that faith....for jesus
 
<bea> i became a catholic...but ..there are so many branches
 
<bea> not sure where i fit in.
 
<UsandThem> umm to be honest i have a problem with its susceptability to corruption that leads to many bad things
 
<UsandThem> plus, unlike catholicism, they have a high probably of rejecting science
 
<bea> yeah, i noticed that
 
<bea> they are very close minded
 
<UsandThem> yes it seems like that too me...i mean im sure there are reasonable muslims but i think that they are more like exceptions to the rule
 
<bea> they don't seem to understand that ...people grow in knowledge..and understanding...but at the same time.....can maintain faith in god.
 
<UsandThem> yes i think this is a big problem in any fundamentalists mind...they all seem to think that accepting things like evolution means they must become atheists
 
<bea> yes, evolution is an interesting idea....what do you think about it?
 
<UsandThem> umm i think that its as proven a fact that we can have
 
<bea> but doens't it disprove the genesis story then?
 
<bea> if evolution is true..then adam and eve..is not..
 
<bea> if we came from monkies..
 
<UsandThem> well yes it does but as a catholic for 20 years i was never taught that these stories were to be taken literally
 
<bea> heh, then how can you determine what parts are real ..and which are not?
 
<UsandThem> the catholic church and the orthodox churches both accept evolition
 
<bea> is it anything beyond just moral teachings?
 
<UsandThem> yes that is tricky
 
<UsandThem> since leaving the book up to interpretation is highly problematic
 
<bea> so did god start the proccess of evolution?
 
<bea> how does god work into that?
 
<bea> b/c it seem like evolution just takes over..
 
<UsandThem> well thats what most catholics say
 
<bea> for life
 
<UsandThem> yes i agree
 
<bea> where does god fit in then?
 
<UsandThem> ummm you are asking the wrong person
 
<bea> heh
 
<UsandThem> in my opinion he doesnt
 
<bea> i mean, in the universe
 
<bea> what is god?
 
<UsandThem> thats also tricky
 
<UsandThem> there are about 6.5billion different definitions of that word
 
<bea> hehe
 
<bea> you see like an agnostic to me
 
<bea> not sure either way.
 
<UsandThem> no im rather sure...as sure as i can be
 
<UsandThem> thats why i say atheist
 
<bea> what are you sure about? :P
 
<UsandThem> obviously im not 100% but we cant be about anthin really
 
<UsandThem> God
 
<bea> this is probably a hard question to answer..but what is god?
 
<bea> like...what is he...and what did he do?
 
<UsandThem> right so i say that no definion i have heard argued for makes sense or has enough evidence to back it up for me to believe in it
 
<UsandThem> there is still a possiblity that i could find one i believe in, but i dont think its too likely
 
<bea> this probably sounds strange..but ...how can you believe in something..when you are not sure of what that something is?
 
<bea> like, i have no idea of what God is..
 
<bea> how can i believe in something...when that something is completly unknown to me..
 
<bea> what is it that i would have to believe in?
 
<UsandThem> right....seems to make sense to me..
 
<UsandThem> i think that the best you can do is take the definitions you are given and evaluate them
 
<bea> the main definition I am given is that he is a spirit..
 
<bea> but that gets me no where...b/c i don't know what a spirit is..
 
<bea> god...and spirit...seem to be just words....when actual understanding of either word...is lacking..
 
<UsandThem> yes that is the problem when you told to believe in something that has a tendency to look alot like something non-existent than something that is just invisible
 
<bea> yeah, i tend to notice that
 
<bea> ...like ..what is the difference between god and nothing....I cannot tell....b/c i know nothing about both ..
 
<bea> and if something is invisible...how can we even know about it?
 
<bea> the idea of god is confusing..
 
<bea> we are suppost to belive in something which we really can't know about...
 
<UsandThem> yes i think so also....preaching to the chior if you will
 
<bea> I almost understand the view point of an atheist....not believing in a god....what is there to even believe in?
 
<bea> i don't want to admit it....but ....its a very confusing thing.
 
<UsandThem> yes really the point of view i have is to not believe in something until it is demonstrated to be true
 
<bea> evidence.....huh?
 
<UsandThem> yes i like evidence
 
<UsandThem> and the proper kind of evidence
 
<bea> but the thing is....according to christians...if you do not follow jesus...you go to hell.
 
<UsandThem> not just "feelings" that people have
 
<UsandThem> well just apply that same idea of god to hell
 
<UsandThem> i mean how do they know it exists
 
<bea> so you treat all ideas as equal?
 
<bea> I find it much easier to believe in an idea that has some evidence backing it.
 
<UsandThem> ummm yes and no....i mean if somethings are totally contra to reality as i know it i might dismiss it
 
<bea> i wish there was some evidence for god...
 
<bea> ppl say that they see god in a new born baby...and so on...but i just don't see it...
 
<UsandThem> well i think that just has to do with the state of mind religion puts people in...to see things that might not be there
 
<bea> yeah...sort of like seeing faces in clouds...right?
 
<UsandThem> right
 
<UsandThem> or making some random feeling into "being filled with gods presence"
 
<bea> i hate the idea...of having to believe in certain things...over other things....which determines wether or not you spend etenity in paradise..or pain
 
<UsandThem> well i think that the idea of hell doesnt make any sense at all
 
<bea> i wish religion was more based in just being a good person...and not what stories you believe were true or not.
 
<UsandThem> i mean does it make sense that the "creator of the universe" would torture people for eternity and be moral and loving??
 
<bea> hehe
 
<bea> an all loving god giving out an infinate amount of pain...for an infinate time.
 
<bea> it doesn't make sense
 
<bea> i hate how people try to do the ultimate exaggeration for god
 
<UsandThem> yea that doesnt make sense too me either
 
<bea> saying how he is all powerful...alll loving..all knowledgable etc
 
<bea> he can't be all of these things...otherwise..things would be perfect
 
<UsandThem> RIGHT
 
<UsandThem> it seems to me that you arent really a catholic...no offense
 
<bea> lol
 
<bea> none taken
 
<UsandThem> you are way too much in liine with what i think to be catholic
 
<bea> im just open minded i suppose
 
<UsandThem> well thats a good thing
 
<bea> so what are you?
 
<bea> if not a catholic
 
<UsandThem> like i said im an atheist...i dont believe in any gods
 
<bea> ur an atheist?
 
<UsandThem> yes i said that before
 
<bea> ....
 
<UsandThem> what
 
<bea> you fooled me..
 
<UsandThem> no i told you
 
<bea> know whats funny
 
<UsandThem> what
 
<bea> im an atheist to
 
<UsandThem> really
 
<bea> just looking for idea to blog about
 
<UsandThem> so you tricked me???
 
<bea> not completly
 
<bea> i used to be a catholic..and methodist
 
<UsandThem> did you really think i wasnt atheist?
 
<bea> i wasn't sure what you were
 
<UsandThem> i was catholic
 
<bea> you seemed to believe a god.
 
<UsandThem> nope i was just trying to be respectful
 
<UsandThem> and not come off as the usual arrogant atheist
 
<bea> i hate those sort of people
 
<UsandThem> yes its a little annoying
 
<bea> people that claim absolute certaintiy in anything...are arrogent...and ignorant.
 
<UsandThem> its too bad that people dont get that one atheist doesnt represent any other atheists
 
<bea> the one thing i dislike about the term atheist is the assumed certainty in it
 
<bea> obviouslly ...there is no reason to think a god exists...but at the same time...by defintion...atheists are people that claim to know there is no god
 
<bea> which is impossible
 
<bea> like it is impossible to know 100% a something does not exist.
 
<UsandThem> right...but i dont want to call myself agnostic because then its assumed that you are 50/50
 
<UsandThem> or something like that
 
<bea> yeah
 
<bea> well...that is what is assumed of the term..but it really means....a person whom doesn't believe in something...unless there is evidence for it. 


<bea> some agnostics claim to be 50/50
 
<bea> but a real agnostic is just someone that requires evidence to justify believing in something.
 
<bea> they form no opinions on things which cannot be proven.
 
<bea> like god...etc
 
<UsandThem> right i guess im an agnostic atheist
 
<bea> the definitions are just to broad imo.
 
<bea> i would fall under agnostic..but most would consider me to be an atheist.
 
<bea> well..i've gota get going...was great chatting with you.
 
<UsandThem> i think that we cant know there is no god but we can evaluate the positive claims about god and determine whether or not they are probable or even possible
 
<UsandThem> good talking with you too
  
<UsandThem> alright
 
<UsandThem> have a good night
 
<UsandThem> and a good holiday
 
<bea> same to you :)