Matt Stone & Trey Parker - The Book of Mormon - ABC Nightline

only moral because of God?

Many believers make the argument that morality would not exist if there wasn't for God (which implies that god must be real); this argument is very poor for many reasons.

 For the sake of argument, let's say that God exist ('for the sake of argument' =/=  concession that a god exists). Is it good to act morally only because someone is watching? If God is the reason we act morally, then it would seem that without God everyone would act immorally. This sort of mentality is why believers perceive atheists as being immoral, and completely goes against the concept of free-will. On the other hand believers see atheists arguing for moral-relativism, and view them as being moral-less blah blah, so on and so forth.

I would argue that those that are moral because of God are like those little-asshole-kids that are only good around Christmas an their birthday for the reward.

The religious are unable to escape their selfish motives for behaving well. Someone that behaves well only out of fear of punishment or hope of reward, is not moral. I would argue that by default atheists are more genuine because they don't believe someone is watching them like Big Brother, and don't believe in reward post-life.

Someone that behaves morally for the sake of others is genuinely behaving morally; i.e. motives are not out of self-interest, but out the interest of others. It seems that those who subscribe to the 'I'm only good because someone watching' view of morality are sociopaths, but what do you think?

Do believers have a sociopathic-view of morality?

Click the 'agree' button if you agree, or 'disagree' button if you don't agree (buttons are below the post). 

Al Qaeda Populating U.S. With Peaceful 'Decoy Muslims' ?!

If you are offended by this video, you have a poor sense of humor (and sarcasm). This video is obviously satire to point out the irrational fear of all Muslims. Moderate Muslims should not be feared, and I believe the vast majority of Muslims in the United States are moderates. Hell (npi), fundamentalist Christians have been known to be dangerous/offensive, just look at the Westboro Baptist Church (they picket soldiers' funerals with signs like "thank God for dead soldiers" etc.

With that said, I do think that certain beliefs do not mix well inside a secular society, luckily we have a constitution to keep such people in check (not naming names of course). For example, Mormons are not allowed to engage in polygamy, they had to give that up to live in this country (well, unless they live on a secret compound).  

As long as everyones' rights are protected, everything will continue on like clockwork in the United States; as FDR said: "we have nothing to fear but fear itself".

Atheists Hitchens & Dawkins Expose Mormon Religion

Thank God for men like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens (kidding about the 'God' part obviously). Must be uncomfortable being religious and listening to either of them speak on the subject.

Mormonism is a very strange religion indeed. Its followers however do seem much more devout and kinder to their fellow man (regardless of their beliefs). I hate to say it, but even though Mormonism's falsity is more easily proven, they are much more Christ-like than other Christians. 

Chatting with a Mormon

 Here I am chatting with a Mormon on a chat room, while pretending to be a believer, interested in the Mormon faith, enjoy! (My name is: Steven)


<MrMormon> considering I am the only mormon in the room
 
<steven_663> mind if i ask you a few things?
 
<MrMormon> ok then
 
<steven_663> Who is joseph smith? is he just a human? or is he higher?
 
<MrMormon> no, he was very much a human. We considered him to be a prophet who restored the original church of christ and the gospel following years of apostasy. He was no god and whilst we respect him, we do not worship him
 
<steven_663> i heard that if you are a mormon...you have to give like 20% of your income to the church...is that true?
 
<MrMormon> no, its 10%
 
<steven_663> o
 
<steven_663> you guys believe Jesus came to America right?
 
<MrMormon> yes we do
 
<steven_663> this was after he was put on the cross?
 
<steven_663> and died etc
 
<MrMormon> yes
 
<steven_663> why did he come to america? he died on the cross for our sins...what was the purpose of him coming over here?
 
<MrMormon> To build his church there around the civilization that we believed to have revelated his teachings, and was falling into apostasy
 
<steven_663> wouldn't it be just indians over here ...if he came over here?
 
<steven_663> at that time* rather
 
<MrMormon> what, can you rephrase that question please
 
<steven_663> jesus ...if he was over here...it was awhile ago....was he teaching indians?
 
<MrMormon> kind of
 
<MrMormon> but actually they were mexcian civilizations
 
<steven_663> i've heard some mormons tell me that europeans were over here back then....but some say they wern't.
 
<MrMormon> hmm
 
<steven_663> well not europeans, but people from isreal.
 
<MrMormon> Well, although the church makes no postion on this there is some evidence that christ became the basis for the mesoamerican god Quetzalcoatl
 
<MrMormon> and yes people from israel
 
<steven_663> why didn't the religion continue with the native americans/mexicans?
 
<steven_663> were they all killed?
 
<steven_663> the ones that knew about jesus?
 
<MrMormon> most of the ones who followed him were killed
 
<MrMormon> the rest survived, and some may have continued it on
 
<steven_663> was jesus killed? or did he die of old age in america?
 
<MrMormon> no
 
<MrMormon> he ascended to heaven again
 
<steven_663> o
 
<steven_663> so what was the point then? ...if none of the people he taught survived?
 
<steven_663> why didn't god protect them?
 
<MrMormon> good question, however why didn't god protect the early christians from roman persuction in the eastern world?
 
<steven_663> true
 
<steven_663> mormons believe that god can intervene in human affairs right?
 
<steven_663> or do they believe that he just made everything..and is just sitting back watching?
 
<MrMormon> yes he can, but normally he lets things take their course. He does not make decisions on behalf of people
 
<MrMormon> bit of both
 
<steven_663> i heard that mormons believe they can become a god....is that true?
 
<MrMormon> not exactly
 
<MrMormon> we don't believe anyone can be equal to god
 
<MrMormon> but we believe that people can ascend to be like god and live directly in his precense, but never be "God" themselves
 
<steven_663> ah
 
<steven_663> sort of like an angel?
 
<MrMormon> kind of I would imagine
 
<steven_663> i also heard that mormons believe that black people are the spirits that didn't pick a side in heaven....with the God vs Satan thing.
 
<MrMormon> do you have a religion?
 
<steven_663> im kind of undecided
 
<steven_663> i believe in jesus...and god...but not exactly sure where i fit in.
 
<MrMormon> no that was sadly a lie created by someone who had an extreme bitterness against the church
 
<MrMormon> black people are welcome in our church
 
<steven_663> is it true that you use water instead of wine to represent the blood of christ?
 
<MrMormon> yes it is
 
<steven_663> why is that?
 
<steven_663> just out of curiousity
 
<MrMormon> because our ethical code disencourages us from drinking wine because it is unhealthy and addictive to the body
 
<steven_663> ah
 
<steven_663> i never really understood that though....when drinking the water/wine....does a part of Jesus actually enter the body?...or is it just a metaphor?
 
<MrMormon> its kind of a metaphor to represent the blood christ shed for the sins of mankind, its not unique to mormons btw
 
<steven_663> yeah i know....all christians do it...right?
 
<MrMormon> I think so
 
<steven_663> mormons consider themselves to be christians...right?
 
<MrMormon> yes
 
<steven_663> sorry, if im asking to many questions :P...but im curious about mormonism
 
<MrMormon> its fine
 
<steven_663> do you guys believe in hell?
 
<MrMormon> yes
 
<steven_663> is it basically the same as all sectors of christianity?
 
<steven_663> or is it different at all?
 
<MrMormon> not quite
 
<MrMormon> different in some ways
 
<steven_663> how so?
 
<MrMormon> well
 
<MrMormon> 1) The book of mormon
 
<MrMormon> 2) we believe that the president of our church is a living prophet who recieves revelation
 
<MrMormon> 3) we believe in having temples
 
<MrMormon> 4) we believe that marriage can last eternally
 
<MrMormon> 5) we believe in two other texts, the book of moses and the book of abraham
 
<steven_663> what about hell tho?...how is that different in the mormon religion?
 
<MrMormon> well
 
<MrMormon> we just believe it isn't fiery lol
 
<steven_663> what happens tho?
 
<MrMormon> we believe the fire description just to be a metaphor
 
<MrMormon> it is a dark place where people stay in sorrow forever for their sins
 
<steven_663> do all non-mormons go to hell? or just all non-christians?
 
<MrMormon> only sinners
 
<steven_663> o
 
<MrMormon> let me explain
 
<MrMormon> unlike other christians we believe everyone is ressurected and judged, and placed into three kingdoms of glory based on their life
 
<steven_663> like heaven ..limbo..and hell?
 
<MrMormon> no
 
<MrMormon> 1) celestial kingdom- for those who have lived honorable lives as mormons, they live here in the presense of god
 
<MrMormon> 2) terrestial kingdom- for those who have lived good lives but never joined our church (for other christians and good people). They live with the essense of jesus but not god
 
<MrMormon> 3) telestial kingdom- those who have lived not so good lives, but were not essentially wicked. These people live with the holy ghost
 
<MrMormon> and actually there's a fourth one after those I forgot
 
<steven_663> hmm
 
<steven_663> interesting
 
<MrMormon> 4) Outer darkness- in other words, "hell"
 
<steven_663> so is jesus/holy ghost/ god all separate?
 
<MrMormon> no
 
<MrMormon> what do you mean?
 
<steven_663> well, is Jesus...God...and the Holy ghost...the same being...or are they separate.
 
<steven_663> guess this is a question on the trinity.
 
<steven_663> i never understood that
 
<MrMormon> we believe them to be seperate, but united in one godhead
 
<MrMormon> we do not believe in the trinity
 
<steven_663> like a snake with three heads? :P
 
<MrMormon> no, just together
 
<MrMormon> like a team lol
 
<steven_663> heh
 
<steven_663> so god is like a foot ball team...and the players are god/jesus/holy ghost?
 
<MrMormon> no lol
 
<steven_663> lol
 
<MrMormon> I just used it to describe what I meant
 
<MrMormon> however the trinity is not a true doctrine of christ, it is a pagan corruption that was introduced by the roman emperor Constantine the great 300 years after the death of christ, he done it on his own guess and judgement
 
<steven_663> that's another thing that seems odd to me....why is the new testament so much different then the old?
 
<steven_663> like different moral standards...and god seems like a different personality...
 
<MrMormon> well, they are of different eras
 
<MrMormon> the old testament was a record of jewish prophets, the new testament was a record of christs life
 
<steven_663> seems like alot of reading..mormons would have to do...old testment...new...and book of mormon.
 
<MrMormon> yeah, and the pearl of great price
 
<steven_663> do you follow each evenly....or do you guys focus more on the new testement..and book of mormon?
 
<MrMormon> kind of each evenly
 
<steven_663> heh, i feel like im playing 20 questions with you....but...do you guys celebrate holidays like easter...christmas...etc?
 
<steven_663> Because I hear that those holidays have pagan origins :P
 
<MrMormon> yes we do celebrate them
 
<MrMormon> but because of the good spirit that they can bring
 
<MrMormon> and the good morals and principles behind them, we are not bitter and stupid like Jeovah's witnesses lo
 
<steven_663> lol
 
<steven_663> they don't celebrate holidays?
 
<MrMormon> no
 
<steven_663> heh, that would be boring..
 
<MrMormon> lol yeah
 
<steven_663> Well...i've gtg...great chattting with you :)

Mormon Telemarketer.

Today was interesting. I received a phone call from a Mormon missionary. Apparently they have made the leap from door to door sales into telemarketing. When the conversation started out he basically said "I'm from the Mormon church, please join my cult" Or that was the message I got from him. I had nothing better to do, so I played along to see how long I could keep him on the phone. I lasted around 30 minutes. An atheist pretending to be a Christian that is thinking about becoming a Mormon is priceless. The best part was when he said "if you pray hard enough you will believe, it is just a faith thing". Basically if you tell yourself something enough, you will believe it, some people call it praying, others call it brainwashing.